In this week's webinar, Dr. Miller and Dr. Marbas answer all your questions about food addiction.
Questions Answered
- (02:40) – Dr. Miller & Dr. Marbas on food addiction.
- (11:27) – Assessing your susceptibility food addiction.
- (15:45) – Dealing with cravings
- (23:12) – How can we help others get started on a WFPB diet?
- (32:49) – Dopamine receptors and the pleasure center in our brain.
- (34:47) – Building a support system.
- (37:39) – Can sugar addictions get worse on a WFPB diet?
- (40:40) – How can I handle social situations?
- (46:21) – Can salt, and natural occurring sodium, be addicting?
- (48:29) – How to not become underweight on a WFPB diet?
- (53:32) – How can I manage IBS on w WFPB diet?
- (50:50) – How to get the right amount of iodine for thyroid health?
Complete Transcript
Narrator
(00:06)
We are making plant based lifestyle medicine available to everyone who desires it. With telemedicine, we are removing barriers that prevent many people from accessing this type of care. Lifestyle medicine promotes healthy behaviors and when adopted, individuals can expect improvement and in many cases reversal of chronic disease.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(00:29)
Here we go. Oh, wow. This is great. We got a great turn out today. This is super exciting. So guys, tell us where you're from in the chat box. Claire says nice to see you again.
Dr. Chris Miller
(00:39)
Hi Claire. Nice to see you too.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(00:42)
We're just going to log on here and then we'll be ready to hit the roll.
Dr. Chris Miller
(00:47)
You guys please share your owns stories, food addictions, or questions that you have because this is a powerful topic and I would love to have a robust discussion with everyone about it.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(01:01)
I agree. I think Chris, you're exactly right. This is a very important topic and it's not really recognized as a true addiction, but it's really there because these are foods that are literally manufactured to make us crave them. So then we feel powerless when we break down and we can't get away from it. So it's so very important that we understand there are some very amazing tools available to you to help you, but also just that eating the right diet will also help overcome these addictions because the cravings will go away when you start feeding your body the right foods. So if you are on Facebook, so please feel free to share and then also please write your comments and the questions if you're on the plant based health, I can see those questions. I can't see them other place, but Anthony's going to help us look for things. Please guys, we're super excited and okay, do you guys have any specific questions? Oh, we got people from Illinois, Arizona.
Dr. Chris Miller
(02:03)
Delphine Zines, Indiana I got a good friend out there.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(02:07)
Maryland. Tina, you can stay here. She just asked if she should be on Facebook, but no.
Dr. Chris Miller
(02:11)
Utah, awesome. Gurney, I see you from Gurney. We talked about that great America, it's an awesome town.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(02:20)
Absolutely.
Dr. Chris Miller
(02:20)
Welcome you guys. It's so good to have you all here.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(02:23)
Okay. So Chris, you want to start maybe with a little bit, you said you had some things that you'd like to share with your own journey and I can talk about thin mint cookies from Girl Scouts later.
Dr. Chris Miller
(02:40)
We all have a thin mint cookie Girl Scouts story I feel like. So my story how I want to start this off is before I went plant based, I was getting ready to fly to a weekend in New Jersey to work with Dr. Fuhrman and to even learn this. I hadn't read a single Plant Based book. I was eating standard American diet. I actually hid food throughout my house like in the cabinets and a few places. Not a lot, but a few things that I thought I would need because I had heard that I was going to be going vegan and I was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to do it that I hid food because I didn't want my husband to know that I wasn't strong enough to do it. So I did that and that just shows me, I mean that's clearly not normal, right? That's so weird when I think about it now, but it is what I did. So after the weekend, after three days immersed in plant based food, I was able to come home and throw everything out and never needed it, never went back.
Dr. Chris Miller
(03:39)
It's just a sign of how weak I am, or how weak I thought I was because what we know about food addictions now is that it's more than just willpower. It's more than just weakness. It's actually brain chemicals. It happens for real reasons and while it may not be fully recognized as a full addiction, it has been recognized being extremely powerful and lighting up similar areas of our brains and something that we can't necessarily control. So it's not like it is just willpower. It's far way beyond just willpower and just being a weak person. So that kind of opens up the topic, Laurie I don't know if you want to share your story now or if you want to jump into this.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(04:19)
Yeah because I think a lot of times people don't realize what we mean by food addiction. So remember addiction, the actual definition of addiction is continue to do something even though there's going to be adverse or negative effects to your health, to your wellbeing, to your mental states, whatever. For example, in alcohol like you can determine if someone has an alcoholic problem. They continue to drink and they're driving while under the influence. Their relationships are breaking down. They're not attending work. So these are more obvious solutions, but let's think about food right. So food when we consume these highly processed, highly palatable foods, we're getting diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity, all of these things that come along with an unhealthy diet. So my own personal walk with food addictions is it's not like I have a massive food addiction and I had health problems from it, but it does speak to when you associate feelings or emotions to a food.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(05:22)
That's why some people are very, very offended when you talk to them about giving up maybe meat and dairy because it's a part of my culture and it's not saying there's nothing wrong with that, but we have to think longterm about our longterm health and we can make healthier versions of culturally relevant foods. A funny story is those little Girl Scouts, they come out what is it spring time or something and they're sitting out there in their cute little skirts and their moms and they're raising money. I'm a mom of three kids. I'm always a big fan of helping out. Well then they have those thin mint cookies and for the life of me, I can't just eat one. I have to eat the entire sleeve. There's two sleeves if you guys haven't dove into one. Then the next sleeve. It got so bad that my kids were like, “Mom, we can't let you buy these cookies. You'll eat them all in one sitting.”
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(06:20)
It was just the funniest thing because there's something about chocolate and that crunch. That's a perfect example is they really created just the right crunch, the dissolving little bit of it, the flavors, and then it goes away quickly before you realize that you feel satiated. So these are the things, but I actually have people buy me stuff and stick them on my desk just because I thought it was funny because the healthy doctor and you can't stop yourself. So what ended up happening is I either throw them away or give them away or something, but yeah. I always make fun of myself in this instance. Darn, thin mint cookies. Obviously that's just a funny story, but they have some serious consequences otherwise.
Dr. Chris Miller
(07:07)
You brought up a good point Laurie and that's why I think it is a real addiction because exactly what you said that it's something that you can't stop even if it's harmful for you and you know it to be harmful. So we now have data. We know that certain foods are causing diseases. A doctor may have recommended that you stop dairy or you stop sugar, but you're still eating it. Why? Why would you do this? You're self harming and you already know differently. The other part of addiction definition is that you have withdrawal from it. You experience actual physical or mental withdrawal and we definitely have withdrawal. We know from sugar for example that people get really cranky, irritable, headachey.
Dr. Chris Miller
(07:50)
So we definitely even withdraw. We know now from studies that when they did functional MRIs of people that were drinking sugar solution and people that use cocaine, it lit up the same part, the nucleus accumbens, the same part of the brain where they have a high number of dopamine, the pleasure neurotransmitter in our brain. Same exact thing, sugar and dopamine. So it's causing a similar type addiction and in rats when given the choice of cocaine or sugar water, they chose the sugar water actually.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(08:21)
It was like over 95% if I recall. It was high 90s.
Dr. Chris Miller
(08:24)
Yeah. So these are just all examples of how addictive food is, but because we have to eat and it's socially acceptable, we struggle with it. There are people who have struggled with cocaine addiction and food addiction and think the food addiction was harder for them to overcome and so it's powerful and it has many of us in its throws without realizing. What we'll notice as physicians is if a patient is very resistant to give something up, then that's a food addiction. I often say to my patients, “Well you would give up carrots for a month.” If I said carrots are hurting your health and causing your high blood pressure and your heart disease, I want you to go a month without carrots, you'd be like, “Fine, great. Done.” Easy peasy, you're not addicted to carrots. If I say I want you to give up that cheese for a month, it's hurting your health. It's causing these problems. “Oh my God, I can't give up cheese. No way. This plan isn't for me.” That's not your rational brain thinking.
Dr. Chris Miller
(09:19)
That's your food addiction. So it's something that we have to delve into because it's a bigger thing than just mind over matter at this point. Some people can be like, “Oh yeah, I'll go for it.” Other people it's a little trickier, right? I mean this is what we were talking about with some of our patients.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(09:35)
Yes. Yeah, Chris you're exactly right. So you're talking about again, we're not making rational decisions based on rational thought of outcomes, right? That's what makes us human are these emotional components, but someone asked are there degrees of food addiction or is it all or nothing? I would say certainly there are certain degrees, right? I know that when I went on a whole food plant based diet, the hardest thing for me to give up was cheese. I still did it, but it was like I had thoughts and missing it and so there was certainly, but it wasn't to the degree that it was harmful to my health at that point. It doesn't mean that it wouldn't have led to issues and I'm sure when I was a child, all the constipation that I had, it was probably related to the dairy that my parents forced upon us. There are a lot of strategies that you can use to overcome food addictions, but the first thing is you got to understand you have an issue and that you're not powerless. So that's the key. This is a journey.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(10:42)
It's not like now I know I'm just turning off that craving switch. No, it doesn't work like that. There's back and forth and successes and failures and eventually you get more successes and less failures and it becomes easier. Of course I'm a huge fan of Dr. Jud Brewer and if you guys check out his website, it's called DrJudd.com, but he has some tremendous resources. One in particular regarding food addiction is called Eat Right Now. It's an app you can download on your phone. I've been studying this mindfulness stuff that he teaches and it's phenomenal and I've interviewed him several times, but we can go into the habit loop and stuff, but Chris do you have any potential things that you like to share with your patients before I go into what I do with mine?
Dr. Chris Miller
(11:27)
Yeah, I do a different approach actually. So I can do my approach now. So I am not who really responds well to mindful eating. I know some people do have great results with it. I took a quiz you guys that I will share right now and it's through Susan Peirce Thompson who's a PHT who suffered from major food addictions till she learned how to overcome them. She has a quiz. You can find it if you google her name or Bright Line Eating food addiction quiz. You can pull it out and it's about 10 questions. It's not horribly long, but it'll ask you questions like have you ever eaten when you knew it was bad for you? Have you ever driven late at night to get food? Have you hid food? Have you eaten when you're already full to the point of being sick? I answered basically yes to all of those. I was a 10 out of 10 on her scale. She's a PhD big time researcher and she has found that about 20% of people score low like one to four or one to three, something like that, scored low. Low food addiction.
Dr. Chris Miller
(12:28)
So they can eat a Girl Scout cookie and be fine and they put it down. So for those people, that 20%, one Girl Scout cookie is totally fine. They can eat that bite and get on through life. Then she found about 60% of people are in the middle between three and seven and those people, four, five, six, something like that. Those people some of them especially the lower end can get away with a little bit of something. They can have a few bites. They can do a little moderation and get away with it. They can maybe do a cheat day here and there. Maybe a cheat meal here and there and be fine with it. What she found which I thought was hilarious is that most dieticians fall in this middle range. So a dietician when they tell you, “Oh, eat moderation.” That's because that's what they experience. They experience that they can eat moderation and they get away with it. Then about 20% of people are in the high range, the eight, nines, and 10s, right? Which I was 10 out of 10 on her scale.
Dr. Chris Miller
(13:21)
Those people we can't do moderation. It will not work and it never works for me. I know this over and over again. This is so unfortunate, but I'm just going to reveal it. If I even have a plant based dessert, it lights up my brain, my dopamine receptors. I now crave more desserts, I crave more overeating, I crave more snacking. I just crave food and I want more sweets. Even a perfectly designed plant based dessert unless it's not very sweet. If I make it not very sweet, then I can get away with a bite or two, but for the most part even that one bite and what it does is it sabotages my plan to eat high [inaudible 00:13:58], eat mostly vegetables, to be on this healing plans and feeling great until I have even that one thing.
Dr. Chris Miller
(14:04)
I learned on my own even before I did that quiz that I'm an all or nothing. When I have none, I feel fine. I don't think about it. I don't crave it. It's out of sight out of mind. I wouldn't even want a plant based dessert. I wouldn't want real chocolate. I would want a thin mint Girl Scout cookie the way I used to because I haven't eaten it in so long. It's easy. I'm not willpowering it. I'm not mind over matter. Nothing. Easy peasy right now because I feel good. I eat a good nurturing diet which we'll talk about the importance of a good diet also, but if I had even a little bit of dried fruit sometimes can do this to me because I know myself. So in working with patients and the answer to your question when Tina was asking is there different, there's totally differences and people who are in the high scale. You don't even need to take the test. I think most of us know. I already knew I was like this.
Dr. Chris Miller
(14:51)
It's not like that test told me anything. It was just interesting that oh look, but you know yourself. You know that if this is going to happen and for those of us, it's not moderation. It's not cheat days and yes, we have to really go for it and take it 100% out of our lives and we'll be okay. We will be okay with this. For other people if they're low on that scale, they can have a little bit and do okay. They can maybe do some mindfulness and do all these great tricks, will be very effective for them and those people are going to have amazing success and do just fine. Of course we're all different. So I do all of these tricks. I do mindfulness. I do my none, don't let myself have any. I feel good and it's part of my life now. So your guys' answer is know yourself, know what works for you, and we have to build different plans to help you reach your goal with these food addictions.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(15:45)
Yeah absolutely. So I would agree. I tend to have people be all or nothing because I think it's just like you wouldn't tell an alcoholic, “Oh, you can have a little sip of something on the weekends,” because I think you're just triggering those old parts of the brain that's like, “Oh I remember that and that was really good. Let's have some more.” Definitely. So the mindfulness is what I'm describing is not in the sense of I'm being mindful to be in moderation. Trust me, I've told people multiple times moderation kills. Especially when it comes a whole food plant based diet and people are like, “Oh, occasionally I can have this.” I'm like, I tend to lean in this direction because I know human tendencies. So the key here is not only with mindfulness. It's understanding that you're actually not a victim to this physical sensations of the thoughts of a craving and that's where Dr. Jud Brewers work comes in. So basically just to make it a very brief explanation, I go into detail about a habit loop.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(16:42)
So when I try to explain what a craving is, so remember you have a cue, a trigger. So let's say someone who's smoking, it's a little bit easier or even eating I guess. If someone's stressed and they're used to smoking because they feel better after they do the habit of smoking. So their cue is their boss sent them an email that was stressful, they had an argument with their spouse, or maybe they're bored or maybe they're tired or maybe they're whatever. That usually is a discomfort. So they're like, “I need something to feel better.” The brain's like, “I need to feel better.” So you do this habit, smoking, eating, whatever it is. Then we can go into how those habits are laid down, but we're just going to talk about the habit loop right now. That leads to the reward and the reward is I feel calmer when I smoke nicotine and I feel better with this habit. I'm socializing with people when I'm smoking or I feel better because I get a dopamine rush when I'm eating this high sugary high fat food.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(17:37)
Then it builds into this craving because every time we do that activity, you're getting one more row or track of that neural activity. The mind's like, “Every time I get stressed, I need you to do this because I feel better.” You get that craving and that sensation. So all the mindfulness does is bring you out of just the automaticity of a habit of just doing it mindlessly would be an example versus being aware of the actual situation. So I interviewed Dotsie Bausch who's the Olympic track bike rider who won silver, great story. She talks about using, she didn't label it mindfulness, but it's exactly what it was. In our interview, she talks about how she had these horrible, she's anorexic, she had bulimia, she had a cocaine addiction, but she was seeing a therapist who said before you do this, I'm not going to tell you to try and will your way through this and stop it, but I want you to put a sticker on whatever triggers you. The trigger, the cue, the toilet, the refrigerator.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(18:40)
Before you do that, I need you to stop and sit for a minute to two minutes and think about what you're doing, why you're doing it, and if you still feel compelled to do it, go do it. I need you to stop that. She said over the course of several months that being mindful of what she was actually doing because then your mind just starts asking you questions, what's going on? Why am I doing this? Not in a judgmental way, but just being curious about what's going on. The curiosity becomes more of a reward and the reward is less appealing because then you start thinking about how do I feel right now, these are just physical sensations. Do I really want to do this? So there's a lot to it, but that's the basic idea. She literally was able to overcome through mindfulness practices.
Dr. Chris Miller
(19:22)
Good job done.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(19:22)
So it's really a powerful thing when you allow your mind to start turn on the thinking part of the brain and we say, “Okay caveman brain, I need you to calm down for a minute. Let me think about what I'm doing here.” It's really cool and you can do it for anything. Some of us are addicted to our phones and all these other things. It's the same thing. All these little things and dings that we hear, it's like, “Oh you got a message. Oh you got a Facebook. Oh you got a text message.” It's hard not to stop what you're doing and say, “Ooh, I got a text message. Ooh, someone sent me a message.”
Dr. Chris Miller
(19:56)
Yep.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(19:56)
You can use the same ideas for the same thing, but he has the book called The Craving Mind. The beauty of this is we can help you dissect it. We are an observer from the outside whose seen so many patients go through all these things that we can help you guide you into that practice of being mindful or using different approaches such as Chris has done very successfully for herself. Yeah, like you said, everyone's different. It's a journey guys. There's going to be wins and losses, but as long as you keep moving towards the target.
Dr. Chris Miller
(20:31)
Laurie, I actually got his app and I have been using it. So it's one more tool in my own tool belt. So what Tina has commented here is that she's been doing whole food plant based for 10 weeks and suddenly she got cravings again. So she's not been eating any of that. So she's wondering what happened, why would that happen? That is why food addictions are so freaking sneaky and they do this to us. They sneak up when you least expect it. When maybe you're stressed, maybe there was a trigger like what Laurie was talking about. Something that would have triggered you in the past somehow got in your mind and the mind is like a wolf. It will run with it and it's the animal instinct. It wants you to get that fat, that calorie, that craving back in you and so that's what's happening with it. They will keep sneaking up. The episodes will become smaller and fewer and less frequent over time, but I've had them sneak up two years into it, right? But less.
Dr. Chris Miller
(21:28)
This is where tools like what Laurie's talking about are essential. So having tools to deal with it is really, really important. So making sure that first of all you're eating a whole food plant based diet. So making sure a nice, full, fiber rich meals that you're satisfied is really important. Making sure we're drinking enough water. Dealing with other things like stress. So what's going on in your life right now? Are you stressed out because that will definitely bring back food addictions. We know this happens to all of us when you have a life stressor, a life event, something bad happens. What happens? People fall off their plans, right? We go back to the old ways. It all comes back to haunt us even if we're doing so well for so long. That's when we need these tools. We have to do tons of self care, work on our stress, get plenty of sleep. Food addictions come back when we're not rested.
Dr. Chris Miller
(22:17)
So we want exercise. Exercise helps us overcome our food addictions. Build self confidence, build how you feel about yourself and circulates all the toxins out of you. It gets rid of anxiety in our brain. It's the best medicine for our brains, for brain health is exercise. So doing all of those things and then also having these mindful tools. So being able to write it out, being able to look into this saying what is going on and with curiosity and laughing at it. That's what I do now. I laugh at my food craving. I'm like, “That's really funny that you want me to eat that now.” Obviously I'm exaggerating, but that's I do to that wolf, that food craving that's haunting me and it haunts our patients. So we have all these tools to keep us strong, to help us in addition to abstinence which of course is important for especially those highly addicted of us.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(23:08)
Absolutely.
Dr. Chris Miller
(23:11)
Answer to that.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(23:12)
I couldn't agree more Chris, 100%. Like I said, if you guys have questions, feel free to put them in the Q&A box if you're in the webinar or if you're on Facebook watching us on the Plant Based Telehealth, please type them in the comments and we'll be happy to answer your questions. We did have an email question for today. It says I have an 11 year old granddaughter who has exercise induced asthma, flaky scalp, itchy skin, a bit overweight, stays up late, wakes up late, doesn't like to exercise, likes to snack on cheese, chips, and Goldfish snacks. Her meals consist of chicken nuggets, macaroni and cheese, and pizza. Oh my. I think the whole food plant based diet would make her healthier. Absolutely. Is there one book, video, or movie I could suggest to her mother that might convince her to help her daughter to change the diet? Oh boy.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(23:57)
So there are so many layers to that question. So first of all, where do you begin? So this is my thought on this and you guys know I talk about my kids a lot. They're young adults. I'm very blessed they've chosen to eat healthy and have promoted for themselves and others around them a whole food plant based diet, but as a parent I don't think when they're smaller that we understand what we're doing to our kids. I would come from it the approach honestly, I would get her the book called The Craving by Dr. Jud and I would read it yourself first and then hand it to her because what the child's doing, she's modeling the behavior I'm assuming that other people in the home eat this way. So I would approach it from your daughter saying, “Hey,” who's the mother of the granddaughter, “This is my concern is that what we're doing is we're laying down the foundation for your daughter, my granddaughter to be very ill.” So we're laying down food addiction, right? She's wanting cheese, processed food. She's already suffering the consequences of inflammation in the diet. You've got skin inflammation.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(25:07)
The body is yelling, “I am not well.” She's a child. So this is where the parent has to understand we hold responsibility for our children's health to a degree. Obviously things happen and unfortunately diagnosis occur. I'm not saying that, but when we look at things like being overweight or irritable bowel issues or skin things and we're looking at these, because we understand that we're not feeding our children the healthy diet, we have to take responsibility for them and we can only allow what's in their environment to be healthy. These are children. Som people go, “Well I want my children to make those independent decisions.” Well, would you go let them live independently? They're not ready for that right now. So we have to make them understand that we have to guide them, teach them so they can make those better decisions. We don't just let children run feral. There are some people who believe in that. I don't.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(26:01)
I think if you let them run feral, hopefully they're going to turn out okay, but there's going to be some issues. You got to tend the garden. So big fan of thinking of kids as here's my garden and I have this little seed and I put it in the soil and we're going to water it and we're going to give it sunshine, but sometimes you got to pull some weeds out of the garden to let them grow and flourish. Sometimes you got to prune things back. Sometimes you got to add some fertilizer. So these are things you have to do. A child is just like that. It's a fertile garden that wants to grow and be fruitful, but we have to do the work. Gardening is not always easy, but if you lay the foundation with beautiful, healthy soil and you put that seed in there, you will get what you reap. If you put that foundation early in their lives, still not too late. She's only 11. That would be so powerful for her.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(26:53)
First I would come from a loving, not judging and saying I really want her to be healthy and well. Can we try doing this for a little bit? Maybe 30 days and see if she doesn't feel better. Maybe she'll be more active. Maybe she won't the asthma. Maybe she will breathe better. Maybe she'll have better skin. She's going to have more confidence because she's going to be entering into those pre-teen years which is I don't know anybody that enjoyed their pre-teen years, but if you're already walking into it not well, it's not going to get easier and hormones are going to be fluctuating. There's so much going on in those little bodies at that time. Oh my goodness. So let's try to make this transition as easy as possible. So that would be my hope as a mother that someone would bring me that message, lovingly and open, but understanding you may be rejected because mom may be dealing with her own situation. I don't know, but that can be some sticky complications and it depends on their relationship.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(27:49)
I agree that handing the book, Forks Over Knives would be another good one to start with. There's another one that video, I can't remember, but Chris if you have anything I'll find the video and I'll give you guys. It's a really powerful one. There's a young man in this video who has a heart attack at 35 and he's in to the ER and it's from his perspective and he's laying there and they're ripping him open. The doctor goes, “How did this happen?” I'll leave out the expletives. They go backwards literally in time. So it goes back to the day before and he's driving to the drive through and then he's growing up and he's in his teen years and he's chowing down hamburgers and he's hiding food.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(28:31)
His mom takes him to the doctor and the he's like, he's got to lose weight and he's backing up and then his teacher's giving him candy for doing well on a test and he's backing up and his mom's getting him french fries as he's sitting in a high chair. So it goes back and it's like this starts now. Chris, if you have anything else to say to that. I'll find that video real quick.
Dr. Chris Miller
(28:51)
Yeah, those are some wonderful points. You're such a good one because you had the experience of having your kids and what you've done with them or help them with, but I would also say I really like the video. It depends who the audience is. For a kid, it's something like the Game Changer that I think that's just a powerful. The Game Changer is a powerful video that's relatively new. It's on Netflix right now and it gives a lot of the good science and shows healthy people including Dotsie Bausch. It shows how they did it to become strong and healthy and I think that's a fabulous film. I also think it's something like Super Size Me might be really effective for this family because it's about how one person decides he's going to go to Mcdonald's every day for 30 days and eat his meals there and it shows how all his numbers go bad, how badly he feels. So it's kind of powerful and eye opening. These types of things did something for me as well and I share it with my patients because it helps us open our eyes to how powerful food is.
Dr. Chris Miller
(29:55)
We often don't realize just how bad these foods are for our bodies or how good the good foods are for our bodies. So watching a film like this helps us start to understand and then we start to see other people making the change and tips on how to make it and then following things like finding support. So doing exactly what you're doing by watching this, try to get the kiddo involved in this and the family involved and what are the parents eating? So important. Things like healthy human revolution and joining some basic groups and getting the group support. That's what I would say to get started on it.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(30:35)
Yeah. So here's the video. It's called Rewind the Future. If you go to the Children's Health Care of Atlanta Strong with the number four Life on YouTube it's had over 10 million views, but Rewind the Future. Children's Health Care of Atlanta Strong4Life and you'll find it. It's powerful. It gives me goosebumps every time I watch it. I use it in my speeches. It's phenomenal, but absolutely. For young men, I think Game Changer is really powerful. I'll tell you a funny story. I saw it first time with my son was 19. He had broken his leg unfortunately. That's another story. We'd gone to see it here Boulder NCU, University of Colorado, and I took him to it and I'm sitting next to him and they do that part about sexual function and all that type of stuff and they have young men. I'm like, “See?” He's like, “Oh my heavens. My mom.” Anyway, so just beware there are some parts like that. So if you feel uncomfortable. I'm all about harassing your children while you can.
Dr. Chris Miller
(31:53)
I love that one for healthy people because I often feel like people think that a plant based diet is for people who are unhealthy and I've heard in talking to patients who knew nothing about plant based diet, they'll say, “Well it's good for a sick person, but I'm healthy. I don't need that.” That movie shows me that nope, it makes us our best self. So it's a good one for getting started on.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(32:14)
Absolutely. You're exactly right. It's powerful because these are athletes. These are people that we look at and respect in society and I think it can move a lot of people in the right direction. Absolutely. So again, if you guys have any questions, please put them in the Q&A box or on Facebook in the comment section. We'll be happy to answer.
Dr. Chris Miller
(32:35)
Comment about your own journey with food addictions and food cravings or what foods are you craving or any success stories or anything.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(32:43)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Chris Miller
(32:49)
Another interesting point about food addictions is that dopamine receptors that we have, so dopamine is the pleasure center of our brain and we need dopamine because we need to do certain things that are pleasurable. We need to have sex, reproduce as a species. So that's pleasurable. That lights up dopamine. We need to eat. So that's pleasurable, that lights up dopamine. We need shelter and warmth and comfort and these things light up our dopamine receptors. So some people turns out will have more dopamine receptors than others. So certain people need to go for even more with cravings. So that's been an interesting finding to think who has more receptors or less receptors and you're going to need to find even strong stimulants. These might be some of the people that tend to get more highly addicted easily to drugs or alcohol or food or sex or who knows, or whatever. Just more highly addicted.
Dr. Chris Miller
(33:43)
The good news is we can all overcome that. Those are more the people that same thing, just complete abstinence from whatever is triggering. Whatever certain food or drug or sex or shopping or whatever the addiction is just to completely overcome it, but it is interesting to think that it's a uniquely individual struggle that we have although so many of us are sharing that. Also ask yourself that. Are you on a plan and then you fall off? I do a lot of journaling. I have my patients do a lot of journaling. I have my journal right here next to me, but I will often say look at your journal. What is happening in your life when you're falling off that addiction? Are you feeling good and life is awesome at that point or something usually triggers us, so take a look at what is going on and really build a robust self care. Self care makes a huge difference for your addictions. In addition to eating the right foods and stocking the house and having a plan and knowing your purpose, but taking good care of yourself big picture and having the support.
Dr. Chris Miller
(34:47)
Support is another key thing to overcoming your food addiction. So for those of you who are struggling with it, anytime you fall off the plan, you're on it, you're eating perfectly and then you're not, ask yourself why. Take a look at a journal. What's going on in those days? Usually you can start to tease it out and find the triggers and that's where you work on the self care to prevent that from happening. So instead of beating yourself up and saying, “Oh my God, I suck at this. I'm so weak.” You're not weak and you don't suck at it. I can promise all of you that right now. What is happening is that you're falling into self sabotage because you haven't built the support system. You haven't built the robust self care. You don't have the tools yet to overcome how powerful a force these food addictions are. So instead of being upset with yourself, you can take that as a learning experience.
Dr. Chris Miller
(35:35)
So at the end of the day, you want to look at your journal. What can I learn from today which equals what didn't go as perfectly as you wanted it to, right? Instead of beating yourself up, it's a learning experience. So what did I learn today? Gosh, I learned that when I'm stressed out, I still want to eat dried fruit and I'll overeat it. Oh, that's great that I learned that. That's a wonderful learning experience. Then the next part of that is how am I going to overcome that tomorrow? What happens when I'm stressed out tomorrow? What am I going to do? I'm going to throw out all the dried fruit right now in my house so it's not in my house and I'm going to do a little more meditation, deep breathing in the morning, and try to get a little more sleep tonight so I'm not so tired.
Dr. Chris Miller
(36:09)
I have more tools in my belt. So tomorrow's another day and then I'll see what I did, how well I did, and I'll celebrate my wins and I'll see what I'm learning from the next day and then you keep building on that so you start to get more of the tools so that you can overcome those addictions. So that's another little tip that I share with my patients.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(36:27)
Yeah. I think journaling is very powerful because sometimes we forget how difficult or how far we've actually come and I think self care is a really big one Chris, because I think the one person that we speak to the most harshly is the person looking back at us from the mirror. So when we think about that, the things that we speak to ourselves, would we ever say to another human being that we care about? So I think we have to understand that community's important, having that support, but loving yourself for all the faults. Earlier before we started we were comparing wrinkles. So you got to love all parts of you. Is it easy? No. Sometimes we're disappointed in whatever we've done, but we just get up and dust ourselves off or give ourselves and move on. Tomorrow's a new day and so I think it's really important to have someone in your corner cheer you on when some days you just feel like you can't. So that's really, really important. So I think that's the beauty of bringing together as much of a community as possible. So we do have a question.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(37:39)
Can sugar addiction get worse? By that I mean can cravings expand say from refined sugars to honey, then dates, then bananas? I think that's a yes. You kind of speak to your own experience Chris. You mentioned that kind of a little bit earlier.
Dr. Chris Miller
(37:55)
Yeah, Tina absolutely. They do. They can. These things I'm telling you, they're wolves. They're wild wolves in our brains and they run with it. So absolutely they get worse and they can get worse. So I had the same thing happen to me where there was a couple years I had no dates in my house. I would eat the entire package every time and for some reason, I would think this is the day I can just have one date or I can have something sweet with a date. Or I'd read about this beautiful recipe shared by somebody super healthy and think okay, that's good. I never could do it. Never. So I had to get rid of dates and then bananas, yes they can be so sweet. I would have the same thing. If I ate watermelon which was so sweet, became a trigger to overeat and then to crave more sweet. So I can't. So some tools for that I would say is find out what your triggers are.
Dr. Chris Miller
(38:43)
If right now dates and bananas are triggering you, then get them out of the house or hide them. If someone else in your family is eating them, get them out of your kitchen. Out of sight out of mind. Do your best to get it kind of far away from you so it's not something you look at everyday. Replace it with something. So for me it always helps to replace it. I love berries. I love berries and I sometimes am mindful of how much they cost, buy organic berries. So I won't always have tons of berries in my house, but when I'm having these trigger moments, when I'm feeling the cravings pretty strong, I will put extra berries in my house and then I really will start journaling and I'm going to look at what's going on in my life. Why am I craving things so much right now? Am I not getting sleep? Am I really stressed out? Am I not eating proper meals? Sometimes I don't eat proper plant based meals.
Dr. Chris Miller
(39:28)
I'll eat a little salad, but that's not enough to sustain me and so two hours later I'm starving. I might be craving some of my fruit or am I just reading a ton and I'm falling asleep so then I want to eat something sweet like a good piece of watermelon which wakes me up and that makes me crave more sweet. So what is it that's making me want that so badly. So I'll get those things out. I'll try to get to the bottom of why I'm having these cravings and distract myself. Drink plenty of water. Eat good meals. Get sleep. Work on my stress and over time it gets better. So I now have dates in my house and I'm not eating them anymore. There was about three years that I did not have a single date in my house and now it doesn't phase me at all. I'm still not eating them, but they're there. My husband will eat them. I'll make a plant based dessert and give it away to someone else or share it for a family thing or something. That is better.
Dr. Chris Miller
(40:21)
I do eat bananas. I do eat watermelon and I'm fine. Now I can take two cups of watermelon, put it in a bowl, and eat that and be good with it. So I don't eat the whole half a watermelon anymore like I have done in the past. So those are some of my tips for you to help with some of that.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(40:40)
I think those are great and we had another question. If you're at someone's house and they offer you a trigger food, how do you work with the situation? So I think there's several ways to do that. Number one, going in planning for such a thing because it will happen at some point somewhere. I think it depends on the someone. So if it's someone you don't know and they're not going to make some irritating sabotaging comments, you can just say, “Oh, I'm on a special diet. My doctor says I have to eat this way.” I always tell me patients, you can blame this on me all you want. You can tell them I'm crazy and I'm insane and she talked me into this crazy diet. I'm like I got broad shoulders, bring it on. So I'm happy to take that even if I'm not your doctor, you can blame it. I heard this crazy doctor's on plant based. The other thing is one, just say thank you so much, but it's outside of what I'm currently eating.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(41:32)
I'm trying to sustain a really healthy diet and be transparent and open with them and say I'm afraid that's going to lead me down a path that I'll struggle to get back from, but thank you so much for the thoughtful offer. I just can't do that right now. Being vulnerable and transparent with people makes them less likely to be abrasive because they're going to be less offended if you say no to their food. A lot of people, I'm married to a Filipino, so in an Asian home if you're offered food, it's expected you'll eat it. At this point, they just stop offering it to me because I just politely say no, I'm sorry I can't eat that. If you just put it back on yourself and say I struggle with certain foods and I'm worried that that might trigger me to eat foods that I don't want to and I'm dealing with, if you want to share health consequences or whatever, that's one way.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(42:30)
Then they're not offended because it's back on you. It's your issue. It's not them. It's not the food and just say thank you so much for the gracious offer, but I'll have to decline. I'm sure there's someone here that would so much more enjoy it than I would. So that's one way. Chris, do you have any other thoughts?
Dr. Chris Miller
(42:50)
Yeah, that's great. I like that, but be honest with them. A couple things. One, I say own it. I think we need to be leaders. So the fact that you're making changes for your health, just be proud of that and just whatever it takes. Whatever you're comfortable with. If you're not comfortable talking about it which I often don't want to talk about eating when I'm not at work, I just want to let it be. If you don't want to talk about it all, that's totally cool and you can do something like what Laurie just said and tell them that you heard it from a doctor or you're working on your health and just leave it at that. You could also own it and just be proud of it and let them know that this is who I am. I'm the type of person who doesn't eat that. Also you may be asking which I'm not sure, but is what you do for if it's a trigger food and it's something that might make you think and now want it again.
Dr. Chris Miller
(43:42)
One is decide before you go to the party or wherever you're going, a friend's house or going out, that you're not going to eat that. You're the type of person that doesn't eat those foods and so if they offer you your trigger food, no thank you. I'm good. You don't eat it there and for me, that part's easier because I can have a glass of water. I can talk to someone. I can distract myself and get away from it. If I don't have one, then I don't want any. So that part's easy for me. If I had even just one though, oh that would be bad news, but I can walk away. Don't stand near it. Don't be near people that are even eating it if it's really bad at that moment. Whatever you have to do to get away from it and stay strong. Here's where it can be sneaky is, and I've had this happen, I'll be strong at the party. No way, I'm not having that. I'm the type of person who doesn't eat that. Yay me, I did it.
Dr. Chris Miller
(44:38)
Then I'll go home and it's on my head and now I'm craving something else and I'll end up eating something, overeat something, even a plant based thing because I had that strong moment, but my willpower ran out by the time I got home and maybe I'm in a rampage in my house to see if I have any dry fruit or raisins or dates or anything that I can sneak in. I've been known to do that. So that's why I come home. Now I know this happens so I come home and I'm strong and I don't even go in the kitchen and I suck down some water and make some herbal tea and maybe I need to do a quick workout. Whatever I need to do after that party to keep myself strong. I've learned that lesson. So that can be a tough one. So build your tools, know ahead of time what you're going to do and like Laurie was saying, plan for it. That'll hopefully get you far.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(45:25)
Yeah, I think you have to navigate and as the more you interact with people about this like you go out with people and you're making different choices, you'll come up with certain sayings that you say and do different things. So it gets easier guys. It really, really does.
Dr. Chris Miller
(45:40)
Yeah, like Tina said, well poo. I don't want you to think this is totally grim. I and Kathy are now way happier and I feel this freedom that I'm not thinking about food anymore. I'm not fighting my food addictions. I'm at a peace and I feel good about myself. So I would say it takes some work at the beginning and some commitment, but once you get into it it's like learning to ride a bike. It's hard, it's hard, it's hard and then boom, you soar on the bike, right? Then it's beautiful and the wind is in your face and life is good. You're cruising. So it's tricky while you're learning and you're developing your tools and then you're going to soar. So keep at it.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(46:21)
Yeah, absolutely. So we have a couple more questions and we're going to wind down here. It says here, “I know I have food addictions, been off and on a vegan diet for many years. I can do without cheese and other dairy, sugar, and animal products, but if I go just three days without salt, I feel my body is telling me to have a small amount of salt. Can you speak to the need for salt or natural sodium?” Oh my. So salt is another one of those food addictions. It takes about two weeks for your taste buds to kind of get beyond that. Salt is a pretty tough one for people. I say you just bear through it. It's that where you say your body needs it. It's a craving. It's the craving for salty foods. Then every time you have that feeling, if you eat salt, it's going to make that craving harder to overcome next time. So I think that's where the mindfulness tricks as far, I don't know if this is a trick, these are tools that just being aware of what's the sensation that you're having.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(47:21)
What is going on? So foods in natural already have sodium, but the key here is the iodine. So in salt, we just want to make sure that because iodine foods like sea vegetables have some iodine. There's a few others, but make sure you're taking a small amount of supplement if you're eating a strictly whole food plant based diet maybe without if you're not doing sea vegetables like kelp and stuff. I do have one in my vegan multivitamin that has just a small amount because it can mess with your thyroid and stuff, but this sounds more like you said the craving and that you just have to be a little bit careful with that. Any other thoughts there Chris because we have three more questions too?
Dr. Chris Miller
(48:01)
One quick thing is you're doing exactly what Laurie said beginning to taper down your salt is adding things like lemon or lime because the taste buds for sour and salty are right next to each other and so that way you may not miss it as much or using spices to change the flavor so you don't miss the salt. Like she said, over time cravings will start to get less so stick with it. So just make your food taste good and your body will gradually get used to having less salt so.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(48:29)
Absolutely. Camille has a question. “I don't have much problem with food addictions. My big problem with eating plant based diets is that I have continued to lose weight and have digestion problems. Started to eat plant based starting 2018, all the bloating and gas when ate was awesome. Looks like she lost some weight and then on about June 2nd after eating at a restaurant I started getting digestive issues and it hasn't stopped. Lasting over a year now, lots of gas, super smelly, and so embarrassing to be around people bloating, [inaudible 00:48:59], et cetera. I'm now down to 98 pounds and five foot six. Do either of you have knowledge or experience in this area?” So these are definitely food intolerances Chris. I think is so right up your alley. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions?
Dr. Chris Miller
(49:14)
Yeah, so this would be something I would definitely recommend starting to journal over. Right down what you're eating and what you're feeling. If you are eating something that your body is not absorbing it, you're not digesting it, you're not breaking down. Even if it's a super healthy food, it's not healthy for you right now. Your microbiome is out of balance. The bacteria and the gut lining could be out of balance as well and disrupted and so we want to fix that microbiome, rebalance it, and heal the gut lining. That's something that you could work with one of us if you're interested. Yes, we do work with people who don't tolerate foods and help build a more robust microbiome and heal the gut lining so they start to tolerate more foods. We have to remove the trigger foods that are irritating their guts or that their bacteria aren't digesting properly and add foods that they are able to digest.
Dr. Chris Miller
(50:08)
Sometimes that's a slow process and we bring it in slowly. We can use supplements to help balance the microbiome as well as heal the gut lining. So I'd be happy to work with you if you're in one of my states or Laurie could too if you're in one of her states. Yeah, that's something that you want to have addressed.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(50:26)
Yeah and that's really serious, the low weight that you're describing is highly concerning for malnutrition and vitamin absorption. So if you're not under the care of someone soon, I would encourage you to do that. That's highly concerning. So there's another comment from Jennifer. She said, “I'm trying to start over this week after several days of not doing well. I find it a struggle on the days when I'm not sure what to do that day like boredom, uncertainty, et cetera. Today the cravings are strong after two days of doing great.” So Jennifer one, just being aware of it. I'd say on days that you're not sure what to do, fill those days with being knowledge right? So use your natural curiosity to overcome these type of things. So is there a special hobby that you want to learn? Or maybe you want to read more? Like I said Dr. Jud Brewers The Craving Mind is a great book.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(51:24)
So on those days that you're worried, start filling your mind with tools and the knowledge that you'll need to be able to structure your environment so you don't also fall prey. Make sure your environment's in a good spot. There's things at home that need to be taken out. If you live with others that don't eat this way, maybe you ask them to put it somewhere that it's not easily accessible to you. There's lots of solutions so I think this is just a matter of preparation because you know those days are going to come. So this is just like if you practice for a race, you don't just go into running a marathon without practicing. You need to practice the short runs and the longer runs and you do your speed drills and your tempo runs. You know you are going to be at the starting line and you know there's going to be a hard time.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(52:13)
So you practice for those. That's how gold champions win gold. Michael Phelps when he was swimming and he was in his race and his goggle fell, but he had gone through that process of that happening so many times, he was prepared. When I was in the military, when I was in the air force, we did drills so that when we practiced, when we were in situations where we had to think instinctively, we already knew what to do. So it's a matter of using the tools and getting the knowledge so you have them. So Chris, do you have anything else to say to that?
Dr. Chris Miller
(52:43)
I don't have anything to add to that. That was awesome. I agree, 100%. That was a great answer.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(52:48)
Cool. Then another, Camille says she's under no care and she's in Utah. We do have Utah, so please feel free to make an appointment if you want to Camille.
Dr. Chris Miller
(52:57)
We may recommend just so you know some testing. Sometimes people do need a colonoscopy or other workup, but certainly for me sometimes we need both, right? We need the regular workup to make sure nothing else is going on if it's depending on what symptoms, but I would be happy to work with you and tease that out and definitely take a look at your food and start the healing process right away.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(53:21)
Yeah, Chris you have Utah right?
Dr. Chris Miller
(53:23)
I have Utah, yeah.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(53:23)
I would highly recommend Chris for this because her lupus and her stories with food.
Dr. Chris Miller
(53:30)
Messed up gut, my gut was a mess.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(53:32)
She would be phenomenal for this. I mean I'd be happy to help you too, but I think Chris would be right up your alley. Another question is, “My doctor thinks I have IBS and he wants me to adopt the FODMAP diet. I'm whole food plant based and worried about taking beans out of the equation. Any recommendations?” Yes Monica. I have lots of suggestions for you and it's not the FODMAP diet because if you look at the research, FODMAP diet's meant to be a very short term, let's overcome some serious symptoms currently for a short period of time. It's not meant to be a long term issue. Beans ar highly helpful, but we just got to gradually move into it. So with IBS, there's a marriage between a different type of diet and certain medications that can be very, very beneficial and I work with these people all the time as does Chris. So we could definitely help you with that. Chris, do you have any other thoughts there?
Dr. Chris Miller
(54:24)
No, we can definitely help you with that. IBS is so very common and you maybe initially need to take out some of these foods and you start with foods that are not going to irritate you and you build a healthy microbiome that is not going to be gas producing and that's what Laurie and I help with, adding in the proper food in the proper order so that you rapidly get a fiber rich diet, but you're able to tolerate it again. So we're re-sensitizing your gut and we use herbs and we have some medications if we need to for certain patients and we also have the food to use all of our tools. So we'd be happy to help you with that, absolutely.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(54:59)
All right and Camille's asking how to connect with Chris. So basically you want to go to PlantBasedTelehealth.com. Request on that very front page is request a portal invite and you just send that in, we'll send you an invite right away, and then you can schedule an appointment and see Chris literally this week or early next week.
Dr. Chris Miller
(55:19)
Absolutely.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:19)
We're super excited. We're in Minnesota, right?
Dr. Chris Miller
(55:24)
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:24)
Yep, yep. Definitely Minnesota.
Dr. Chris Miller
(55:27)
We're both in Minnesota.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:29)
I have 35 licenses and there's more coming so I actually lose track honestly guys. At this point, I'm like I don't know where I am in the United States anymore. I think Chris is in Minnesota. Yes, we're in Minnesota. Camille says thank you.
Dr. Chris Miller
(55:46)
You're very welcome. I look forward to getting to work with you Camille.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:50)
Camille, she's my doctor how about that, okay? All right, so Judy had a question. This'll be out last question we have time for here. “I had a salt question. I have a thyroid and hyper-parathyroid problems,” very interesting. “My PTH which is parathyroid hormone and calcium levels,” which regulates calcium guys for those of you who don't know, “just wondering how much to know if I need iodine or need to keep eat kelp type foods.” That would be test don't guess. Let's check some labs and look at what you're consuming food wise and then we'd have some good answers for you. Any questions or suggestions there Chris?
Dr. Chris Miller
(56:28)
No, you do have to be a little bit more careful with certain supplements though. Everyone thinks supplements are so benign, but if you have thyroid issues and parathyroid issues, hyper-parathyroid issues, then it's important that you're careful. So things like iodine, you want to have regulated. Also vitamin D, D3 can be over absorbed and cause problems with calcium. So you do want to be careful with that.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(56:56)
Yeah, absolutely. That's where I tell people you have to think of supplements as medications.
Dr. Chris Miller
(57:00)
Yeah.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(57:00)
So we are a system and there is nothing, just because it's a supplement doesn't mean that it is benign exactly like Chris says. So really, really important that you speak to someone who understands the whole picture like myself or Chris or some of our other docs that are joining us shortly. Totie asked if we're in Florida and North Carolina, yes we are in both of those states. Monica says thank you and lots of thanks. Thank you everybody. What a wonderful talk.
Dr. Chris Miller
(57:31)
Yeah, that was great. Awesome questions. Thank you for participating and sharing with us today. We really appreciate that.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(57:36)
Yeah and the replay's going to be up on our Facebook page which is Plant Based Telehealth. If you haven't liked us, give us a like and you'll be notified when we do go live with these every Thursday. At noon, mountain standard time which is two PM eastern standard time and they will also be on our YouTube page. Check out our YouTube page. It's Plant Based Telehealth. We also have Instagram where we pull out little segments in here and we have questions of the day and we really appreciate you guys spending some time with us. We always are honored to be a part of your lives and your journey to health. So have a great afternoon. Chris, anything?
Dr. Chris Miller
(58:12)
Thanks everybody. Thanks for sharing your day with us. Take care and stay strong. We can all do this.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(58:19)
Absolutely. You guys have a fantastic day. Take care.
Dr. Chris Miller
(58:23)
Bye.
*Recorded on 5.28.20