On this Q&A plant-based doctors answer questions and discuss key aspects of protecting your child's health.
Questions Answered
- (00:03) – Children's immune system
- (09:21) – Getting children to eat fruit
- (13:23) – Make healthy eating fun!
- (15:05) – The “one bite” rule.
- (18:12) – Role modeling
- (23:24) – I have a one-year-old baby. How do I know if I'm overfeeding him? How do I know the daily portions?
- (26:00) – What do you advise parents to do when they have a partner who insists on bringing junk food into the house?
- (35:12) – What is your experience when your kids go to a friend's house, or birthday party where they serve pepperoni pizza and ice cream?
- (45:00) – My daughter has a coughing and asthma usually brought on by seasonal allergies. What can I do to help her?
- (50:28) – What are your thoughts on green smoothies? What about chia and flax seed, Julieanna?
Complete Transcript
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(00:04)
So today we want to talk about kids in… because kids are going back to school and of course we're living in a time that's not exactly normal for any of us. So, I know I was just going to start with some tips, but I think it might be helpful if Chris, you start off and just kind of talk about what you were going to speak about the immune system. I think that might be a good segue into it first.
Dr. Chris Miller
(00:28)
Great. Well, hello, everybody. Welcome. Thanks for coming today. And so we are going to talk about the immune system and then these guys are going to help share more light on it and, kind of tips on how to do it. Because I'm just going to say what is helpful for the immune system, but not how to do it. So one of the important things with the Coronavirus happening right now is it's making us all more aware about, chronic illness and the importance of our immune health to protect us against infections, upper respiratory infection, such as COVID-19. And so what are a couple of things that I really want to focus on today and I really want kids to focus on are one is fresh fruits and vegetables. So, no matter how, what kids are used to eating, just starting to bring in fresh fruits and vegetables.
Dr. Chris Miller
(01:18)
So things like oranges and apples, berries, just having an easy stuff. They can choose what they want. Broccoli, carrots, tomatoes. So again, whatever's kid friendly and you guys will have to come up with that, knowing your kids and your family and get ideas like that. I like to have them pick in colors of the rainbow. So they get exposed to different things. One thing they'd like to have each color. So again, so they feel like they have choices. They're not forced into a corner ad so they can learn to like it, but the fresh produce is really important for a couple of reasons, but one important reasons it has vitamin C in it. And if kids are only eating everything cooked, vitamin C is very heat stable, or heat-labile. And so it loses it when you cook it. So just trying to get them to eat some fresh fruits and vegetables is really important to help support that immune system.
Dr. Chris Miller
(02:05)
Another thing that I like is remember that fiber, it's all about the microbiome right now. There's so much wonderful information coming about the microbiome. And we've been talking a lot about that. So, fiber from the fresh fruits and vegetables, fiber from legumes, [inaudible 00:02:18] any beans or peas or lentils or whatever, they'll eat, mixing that into different dishes, whole grains. So if they'll eat some oatmeal for us in the morning with some berries, right, you can knock a couple of these out, hopefully relatively easy Brown rice, wild rice, things like that, whole grain bread for sandwiches and wraps.
Dr. Chris Miller
(02:39)
So these are a few of the ideas. But I'm really focusing right now, fresh fruits and veggies for the micronutrients and helping the immune system there and then focusing on the fiber. Another thing that I like to think about is either green leafy vegetables or cruciferous vegetables.
Dr. Chris Miller
(02:56)
So it depends on how old your kids are and maybe they're not eating anything and you don't want to go here yet. But if they are starting to think about things that are even more immune supporting, so the cruciferous vegetables is going to be like broccoli and cauliflower and cabbage family. And so maybe they'll eat a cabbage slaw with a fun dressing. Maybe they'll eat some broccoli lightly steamed. So you can play with different things to try to get them to eat that. If they will eat it again, if they're getting older, but I would love they get some mushrooms in kids. And if they're not to that level, then don't worry about that. Start with the fresh fruits and veggies, but mushrooms in general are really going to support the immune system.
Dr. Chris Miller
(03:33)
So any way you can sneak them in, if you're making a whole grain pizza crust and putting some red sauce on it and loading it with veggies, maybe some mushrooms would be a good thing to add on. So, that's another important thing that I like to see in kids. And one more idea is, onions and garlic are really strong immune supporters. So if they're going off to school and being exposed to all sorts of different infections, there used to be the day where people were wearing garlic or onion around their necks, during like the plague, in Europe, because it was preventing them from getting the virus or the infection from the plague. And so right, it's written about in different books. And so, but there is some truth to that, not wearing it, but actually eating it. So, if you can cook it into dishes maybe, or mixing into a salad dressing, or add a little green onion, even the sweeter part to a salad for them or whatever, however old your kids are, whatever level they are with trying different fruit vegetables. That's an idea.
Dr. Chris Miller
(04:28)
And then the last thing I want to talk about is other things that are important for the immune system in addition to food, and that is getting sunshine. So even as they're going off to school, they need the sunshine. They need the outdoor time. If they're not getting such an or they live North of basically Colorado, they need probably maybe a little bit extra vitamin D, vitamin D will help their immune system. So paying attention to where you live and your kids' status and how much outdoor time in sunshine. And sleep is vital to the immune system. So kids get stressed going back to school. They may be worried about COVID-19 or stress from school or things going on right now in the world.
Dr. Chris Miller
(05:02)
And so making sure they're getting sleep and really prioritizing giving them enough hours to sleep, to support their immune system. Stress management is important for kids just like it is for adults. So if they are worried with school, we see a lot of belly pains and things happening at the beginning of school years. So, due to stress of school. So I'm helping them through with things like that and giving them tools to work with stress. So, those are my ideas for the immune system. And now let's hear more about it and how to do it because those aren't easy thoughts for kids sometimes.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(05:35)
No, not at all. Dr. Klaper, any other thoughts on the immune system or suggestions?
Dr. Michael Klaper
(05:38)
Oh, sure. Absolutely. Yes. Before getting into immune system stuff. I just want to touch all parents out there who are even contemplating raising their child on a plant-based diet. If you're not familiar with this subject, it may seem like a scary thing is you got young sons, you want that meat and red meat and even women girls need maybe protein. And, absolutely to be the strange one in classes, there's also social issues there. First of all, no child is going to do this unless they asking for it there. If the child is asking to be a vegan, are you going on a plant-based diet? Just something wonderful is happening in their child's awareness, and their child's sense of self, their connection with the world, their empathy is awaking.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(06:34)
So many children when they realize these little animals they love is that that leg of lamb is a leg of a lamb and it shocks them. And that it's a priceless, precious moment that you don't injure them by disregarding the feelings behind it. And as we're plant-based health professionals, we can tell you, not only is it not a crazy thing to do, but the reality is to all parents raising their child as a plant-based diet, you are giving your child a medical/biological life gift beyond measure. This child will never develop clogged arteries. They will never develop diabetes. They will never be the fat kid in school. Their girls are going to have much easier time going through puberty as well. The guys, their skin's probably not going to have acne. It's a gift beyond measure.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(07:30)
And when they get in their 40s and 50s and all their friends they have developing diabetes and dropping dead from heart attacks, their our systems are going to be clean and clear and there's just going to be more effective human beings that don't get entangled in the medical morass that [inaudible 00:07:50] so many of our young people nowadays. So not only is it not a bad thing to do, it is a wonderful gift to give and just keep remembering that. And plus there will pure place in your child where this desire is coming from that you just sit down and explore those. You might even learn that they could do about your old diet there. And maybe you change how you're saying something. So it's a reasonable thing to do. Human beings have been growing up, eating plant-based foods since the beginning of time they're doing it around the world as we speak at this moment, it is not a crazy thing to do to serve your child to bean chili instead of the beef chili, it's a reasonable thing to do.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(08:31)
And so, that thread may emerge again in a few forums during this discussion. I just wanted to set that as far as context goes. As far as the immune system, what Dr. Miller says, absolutely right. Again, we need these, especially these fresh lye foods for lots of reasons, but I have no problem with steaming kale and making soups, but raw vegetables, raw fruits, they're still connected to their natural state there and their immune system are getting more interesting molecules pectines and various types of plant fibers that have their own immune stimulating properties in and of themselves.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(09:21)
But there's microbes on the surface of these vegetables. They don't educate the child's immune system. It's important for them, for all of us to be eating raw produce, raw fruits and vegetables really important. And as Dr. Miller was listing the groups of all star immune allies there, I'm sure somebody said, “Yeah, I get my kid to eat an apple.” Isn't going to happen. Just going to call your attention to a very illustrative study that came out of the, I think it was the Journal of Nutritional Common sense, it was a real study that showed in the schools when they said it was mandated that you had to put a piece of fresh fruit on every child tray. And as a child got to the end of the cafeteria line, the apples and the bananas would go in the garbage, they just weren't eating them. But you have to folks back in the kitchen there took the apples and cut them up into bite sized pieces and served it with a dish full of Apple chunks or grapes that were already off the stem, or banana slice, well, the kids took that and they ate them.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(10:31)
And, so just the act of cutting up the fruit makes a huge difference to people that younger in age there. So don't get too discouraged, use your imagination. And if a kid doesn't like strawberries this week, might next month, who knows, and we'll be talking about, I'm sure there's ways to blend fruits and veggies into it's a soups and salads and disguise, and with apple sauce there's, there's ways to get, and I get the veggies and I'm sure Julieanna, our dietician lab, all sorts of good ideas. And Dr. Marbas, she's raised a couple of her own probably some good ideas as well. So with that, I will defer to my female colleagues, but I just wanted to instead put those comments out in way of context. So I'll turn it over to Dr. Marbas.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(11:16)
So every single time Dr. Klaper, there's always something, it was either the fleas naval last time. And now it's a Nutritional Journal of Common Sense. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Oh, there are some amazing tidbits and stuff there that you just said, and I will be stealing that phrase. So thank you. I'm just kind of round it out with some tips and then Julieanna could tell us the food or whatever she'd like, just share with us because she's also raised two. I raised three, they were teenagers when we switched over. So of course I've made it really hard on myself, 13, 15, 18. Now they're 26, 24 and almost 22. All plant-based, believe it or not, actually helping me run Healthy Human Revolution, which is a place where we actually have a course actually on kids.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(12:00)
So, the thing with kids, honestly, with any parenting is set the example. So it's really hard and unfair to a child to say, “You're going to have to eat healthy, but mom and dad are going to snack on this.” So some of the best examples I'm working with different families, a young one that may have type 1 diabetes, one of my families, the whole family goes on board. You know, I have a different one where, the daughter is a teenager comes to see me, but mom's on board but dad's not. So that really makes it difficult because dad just brings junk into the house, but it makes it hard on the other two and the other part of the family just try to be healthy. So if you guys can get on board to set the example, because it's really as Dr. Klaper said, “That the most important gift you can give your child is a healthy future, because then there's nothing else that they can't do.”
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(12:47)
So everything you teach them when they're little teenagers, it doesn't matter. That is so, so very crucial to their future. And nobody wants to get type 2 diabetes in their teens. And I've certainly seen it. I'm sure these guys as well, but these are not genetic diseases. Your genetics may make you more prone to it, but it's your lifestyle that pulls that trigger. I've had so many patients say, “Oh, they're genetic seen, or I have genetics for diabetes in my family.” Like, no, you actually… what runs in your family is bad eating, poor eating habits. So just think about that. But you have to set the example [inaudible 00:13:22] the other thing.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(13:23)
And like Dr. Klaper said, “Make it fun.” There are so many ways to make this fun, get them in the kitchen. They really need to be preparing their own food with you because not only are they going to be communal in building relationships, but these are skills that a lot of young people don't know.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(13:39)
They'll like, “I don't even know how to boil water.” I'm like, “Oh my goodness.” So I've had patients, literally, who had one pie and one spoon in their kitchen. And so, I mean, this is a travesty it's like, how did you all grow up? I mean, like I was cooking for the whole family when I was young, because we all took turns and we help each other. So, get them in the kitchen, get them in the grocery store, help them plan the menu, things that they want to eat. Things that they like, go try a new food.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(14:05)
We used to go when I brought all this home, when they're teenagers we'd go shopping together like we did before, but I said, “Pick out something that you guys want to try.” You know, the dragon fruit, we had never tried dragon fruit, all these different foods and veggies and some amazing things you could try. New recipes and it actually became a lot of fun. And now I have three kids that can actually fend for themselves in the kitchen and actually make pretty good stuff. So I even use my youngest Gabes tofu scramble recipe because it was so good.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(14:34)
And I'm like, “Why alter it?” So allow them to be experimenting and enjoy that process and kitchen should be comfortable in one with filled with nutrition and joy that comes out of the kitchen. Because that should be one of your favorite places to be. And you know, one thing to do is instead of just saying, “We're doing this overnight,” like I did. So there's some thoughts there. I probably should have introduced it slowly, but I don't tend to run that way. But one food a week, just kind of work on one food a week and that might be enough.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(15:05)
And when it comes to like, “I don't want it, mom.” Okay, that's fine. But you need to enforce the one bite rule. Honestly, even the liquid counts. If they can just get one little bite over time, hopefully that'll be incorporated into their palette. And the studies that I've read is like 15 to 18 different times. So, just some thoughts there. You definitely want to think about how to make the food valuable to them. So if you tell a five-year-old, eat your veggies, that makes you healthy. No, you say, “Eat your broccoli because it makes you smarter eat your broccoli because it'll make you run faster than your friend, Timmy.” These are the things that are really important. Or eat your broccoli because it makes your brain grow so you can ace that test. Something to that degree.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(15:46)
Also challenge them, who doesn't like a challenge. If you can beat your brother or sister or something game on. So let's put a chart and say, “Here's the colors of the rainbow. How many of you can get in a day?” So, and honestly, if they can beat your parents, it's even better. It's like the day that my daughter could outrun my husband, we still gloat about it because she was 13. So these are things that kids love. I don't know if [inaudible 00:16:09] if you have the competitive spirit, there's usually something you can find to get kids motivated. And honestly there's a lot more I have, but those would be for time savings. But if you guys have any questions about kids or kid health, we would be happy to see, kiddos to you planttelebasedhealth.com. And again, Julieanna, please tell us how to feed these kids.
Julieanna Hever
(16:29)
I mean, you guys just said everything [inaudible 00:16:31] so much four of you. And all three of your comments were amazing. And I just screen check. I agree with everything. As the plant-based dietician and as a mom, you'll be proud to know that my daughter's first word after mom was anthocyanin [crosstalk 00:16:50] believe me when [inaudible 00:16:52] with their blueberries I'd say anthocyanin, antioxidant. And I swear she said it, it was the coolest moment ever for me. I felt like that was a success.
Julieanna Hever
(17:01)
That said from a professional standpoint, I love working with families. And I think like you said, Dr. Klaper, it is the best gift you can give your child is to teach them and inspire them and show them how to do this and why, or at least hint at why and they'll figure it out [inaudible 00:17:20] as they develop. I have a clients this week that I started her… the woman when she was pregnant with the twins and we did a pregnancy consult, we did a breastfeeding consult, we did a toddler consult, and now we're doing a little kid consult. So I've been following them throughout their… I know I hope that I'm seeing them when they're seniors, but it's just so neat.
Julieanna Hever
(17:41)
I've had several consults with, kids that, like you said, Dr. Klaper that come to this. I had, where I saw, I read John Robbins diet for New America. And I was like, “Wait, I don't want anything to do with eating animals,” but I didn't know what to do. And it was scary. And my parents got worried about me when I cut out the animal products and we didn't know what I was doing. Now is a very different time, that was pre-internet and there's so many resources available now, that was pretty much why I wrote the Plant-Based Nutrition Idiot's Guide. The first book I wrote was because I wanted to have that guide.
Julieanna Hever
(18:12)
What do you do during pregnancy and infancy and childhood and all of that, because there's information and there's plenty of information available. So we could all do it. I would say the most important thing… Like you all said, I just kind of want to substantiate or corroborate what you all were saying. The most important thing is role modeling. If you are on the same page as your spouse or partner, whoever you're co-parenting with, that's the most important thing. And if that's the case, then that's how your house is. This is what we have, this is what we don't have. This is what's on the table, that's the meal. That's how they are. That's how they live. And it becomes their world. The most important thing, like you said, Dr. Klaper, all the research supports that if you are telling your child to eat their broccoli, while you're sitting there eating your vegan ice cream, they're looking at what you're doing far more than they're listening and that's children.
Julieanna Hever
(18:59)
I have two teenagers right now that said, it's not like you can just force feed your children. It's very, very, very, very tough socially. Okay, that's it. They will learn. They will be inspired and you could only be a lighthouse, that is all we can do and provide the opportunities and provide the health promoting foods. So I've taught kids. I've taught every age group and I've gone into like kindergarten classes. When my kids were in kindergarten, I would bring a big blender and I'd let them make their own smoothies and make rainbows. I love rainbows, always work, cutting things up. It always works. Wraps and pizzas. Anything you could eat and enjoy, I could make plant-based.
Julieanna Hever
(19:32)
You can make plant-based. Any of us can make plant-based. So things that your kids eat, getting them engaged, gardening or taking them to the store or having to pick a recipe out and then they're committed like, “Ooh, I want this one.” Okay. “What do we need to get? Let's go to the store to get it.” Like engaging them as much as you can so that they have some sort of vested interest in the process. The research shows they're more likely to eat those foods.
Julieanna Hever
(19:57)
There's so many things. So kids love dips. Hamish of your food group. It always comes up. You can dip with vegetables, you could dip with crackers and whole grain crackers. And there's so many fun ways. I'd like to insert, I always call it neutral flying. So like my kids love, they survive on pasta, really it's to my, whatever. That's a whole personal thing, but anyway, I will always infuse it with at least in vegetables. So every time I'm making them pasta, I will make sure there's greens in there.
Julieanna Hever
(20:24)
There's this pizza place around here that they have a kid sauce. So they sneak in the veggies in that marinara sauce, that's one way. But you also want to teach them to enjoy the actual process of eating those foods. So the ideal situation is that everyone in the home is on the same page. You started at the beginning, or whatever, you just do it together as a family and you have those options available. That's the ideal situation. So it's a lot of role modeling. Then there's other things you could do. There's like some fun books that are out there now, and there are movies and stuff, or they're talking about foods and they're looking at foods at different ways. So just look for things like that, where you can get little glimpses of inspiration, some videos on YouTube with kids that are cooking, just whatever their likes and dislikes are. Just get them towards eating the plants as much as you can in every way possible. Exposure and role modeling, those are the two most important things.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(21:14)
Absolutely. Those are all fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. So if you guys have any questions, please, if you're on Facebook, on the Plant Based TeleHealth page, comment under this video with your question, and we'll be happy to address that. And then if you're on the webinar, you can just put it in the Q&A box. So we do have a few questions [crosstalk 00:21:33].
Dr. Michael Klaper
(21:33)
Before we go on [crosstalk 00:21:34]-
Dr. Michael Klaper
(21:36)
Bravo on Julieanna comments there. To exhort everyone who does the shopping in your household to realize the power you have with the… if there's a bunch of candy bars and Skittles at home, it's hard to have your kids eat fruit. But if the sugary junk never comes in the house, it isn't there and realize the power you have as you are pushing that cart down the supermarket aisles. If you do not put that stuff in the basket, it just isn't an issue at home and put the good stuff in and come home and if there's a bowl full of cut of mango chunks and grapes and cherries, and really delicious sweet fruits there, and the other stuff just is new, because we're talking about a healthy immune system, the last thing you want to do is each chunk of sugar for any reason, but certainly for fostering a healthy immune system in a child, the last thing you want to do is be bathing those lymphocytes, et cetera, with all this sucrose and fructose, it's not a good thing.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(22:44)
So again, use your power and as you're shopping, “Mommy, I want that.” “No we don't bring that into our house.” And you're the boss you're driving. You got the credit card, you got the driver's license, use your power, just put smart, good things in that basket. So, an invitation to use your power.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(23:04)
Yes. How about invitation to parents? So I'll just leave it at that. So I know it's hard. Sometimes you guys will check out we to make the tough choices. We're not here to be our kids' friends. We're here to be their parents, as they get older, you can become their friend. So when you have less influence on… you just gently give advice. Anyway parenting adults I have found is challenging, but it's a joy as well, but just different. we do have a question. Hello, she has a one-year-old baby. How do I know if I'm overfeeding him? How do I know the daily portion? Thank you. Julieanna, any thoughts there I can give some thoughts too.
Julieanna Hever
(23:40)
Yes, sure. I would say that that's why we have objective measures for that. We use the growth curve, the growth charts, and you just want to keep the… basically the goal is for your child to stay on its growth projectile. So if they're like 50th percentile at birth and all sudden they're 80 or 90 percentile at one of the checkups, that means you need to reign it in probably. Well, the other, I guess I would say subjective measure is how they are like, if they're restless and maybe… wash their energy, you know, your child you'll watch if they're getting sick more often, things like that, warning signs that you need to address. Not usually the portion, but usually the type of food. So I would say use objective measures. That's what the pediatric check-ins are for, especially when they're that little.
Julieanna Hever
(24:24)
But usually they are good about hunger satiety it's us that ruin them. Like we get socialized into not listening to our instincts because naturally we're going to eat when we're hungry and stop when we're satisfied. But everything around us is kind of tailored us to avoid those cues or ignore those cues and push beyond them to points of where they are gaining. Obviously that's the most dominant problem. It's more over nutrition, not under nutrition, but not so much in that age range. So let your baby navigate that. And unless there's a problem and he or she goes off the growth charts, and then you could address it then accordingly with knowledge and information and, and charting, it's really helpful.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(25:03)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's really important to understand that watch the growth curve because you don't want it falling off, but also you don't want to feed them junk food, right. So I've had little ones coming in for like a two-year-old check and they're chewing down on Cheetos and mom's drinking [inaudible 00:25:17] and soda. I'm like, “Yeah.” So these are things that we can avoid. If you don't introduce these foods at a young age, that's going to help you in the future when you would start introducing other healthy foods. I mean, they're just going to take it. So, some good friends of ours that we spent this last weekend with up in the mountains, baby was conceived by plant-based parents, birth pregnancy. And now he's almost two. And I will tell you why this kid, his favorite word to say is hummus.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(25:49)
So he's not even two [inaudible 00:25:50] your size, totally thought of you Julieanna. So he's like every time he has it, he goes hummus, hummus [crosstalk 00:25:56].
Julieanna Hever
(25:56)
If they don't know [inaudible 00:25:58].
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(25:59)
Right. And I never even tried hummus till I was over 40. So I think this is brilliant. So just think about these amazing foods and flavors you can introduce, but absolutely keep out the junk, you're in charge like Dr. Klaper, so eloquently said, so definitely. There's a few different questions here. This might just be with partners in general, not even if you have kids, but what do you advise parents to do when they have a partner on a board who insists on bringing junk into the house? So, any thoughts there from any of you guys, just from a family member that's kind of sabotaging the whole thing.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(26:34)
We do.
Julieanna Hever
(26:35)
I have a [inaudible 00:26:38] experience.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(26:38)
Okay. Go for it.
Julieanna Hever
(26:40)
Keep it personal experience that I had to be careful how I say it. I did not a partner on board and it was a disaster. It was a nightmare. And it was really challenging. But I also, that said, I also work with clients and I have seen a successful transition. So it's really hard because the whole principle of food is this is a freewill world and everyone to each his own. And you could lead a human to healthy, but you can't make them eat. I have seen people come around and people getting on the same page. I give you all of my love and support because it is not easy. It is not easy and it's your children. You care about your children more than anything in the world. Like they are your beings.
Julieanna Hever
(27:21)
You made them. And there's so much invested into them having the… you want the best for them. And this is what I do for a living too. So it's been incredibly challenging for me with my children. The good news is for me, like my daughter came around, she like, why she… there was reasons like socially where she was like, “You know what? I'm going to eat this way.” And she's really eating much healthier now, but it's very hard when there's a conflict in the house.
Julieanna Hever
(27:41)
So you can arm yourself with information and access to information. You can try to inspire the other partner. You could try to control your production of food, like you can cook. I always cook. What I would do is I would make a lot of different options, which is, you know, you're doing that short order chef thing. I don't know if this is the best solution, honestly, but it works for some people where you're the short order chef and you make several things so that someone at least we'll try some of the healthy stuff. But again, the role modeling is everything. And I think that's what happened for my daughter. And I've seen that with other people that their kids, once they learn why it's so healthy, or once they realize how good they feel, or once they're interested in boys or girls, whatever [crosstalk 00:28:23] you know that when they get to the high school age, which is very motivating, then they're going to want to get healthier.
Julieanna Hever
(28:30)
And so if you're role modeling all you can do is control yourself. That's the only thing you can fully control. So if you're role modeling and you're not putting stuff in the cart and your other partner has to go and bring that stuff also, which happens, then you could only role model and provide the food and you could only do what you can do and be a lighthouse and not make it. I think what my lesson personally, I've learned a lot of lessons. One of the biggest lessons I would share publicly is that, don't try to force it. Don't make it as such a big deal. Try to keep it, gentle and open and loving. And here's what I eat. And I love this food and look how great I feel and look at my love. Oh my goodness, I'm still doing so great. Like the inspiration, as opposed to shaming and guilting.
Julieanna Hever
(29:16)
You don't want to call… because this is such a crucial time childhood to cause issues about food. I mean, this is socialization of food starts at home. So many issues here. So many issues you could only control yourself and what you put out to your children. And so you do your best, right. We all do our best.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(29:35)
Absolutely. I would say I agree, but Dr. Miller, Dr. Klaper any other suggestions there?
Dr. Michael Klaper
(29:40)
Yes. Now granted I'm not having children myself, so this is a secondhand knowledge, but one idea that I ran two years ago, there seemed that every time I mentioned it, the parents who do this have a really positive response in that they have, especially when a child, past age, in that age of two, three, four, five, where they're just getting into taste and textures and a lot of them, they want to be like mommy, or they want to be like daddy and imitate. They have these little plastic devices for 15 bucks or these baby food grinders, baby food makers and whatever mom and dad had for dinner, the lentil stew and or the bean soup or whatever, put it in the baby food grinder on and have the child watch you make it and then put it into bowls.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(30:35)
It's been [inaudible 00:30:36] mommy and daddy food. And then they start tasting beans and legumes and sauces and things and starts educating their palette. Well, now you don't have to worry about what it's doing to their intestinal tractor. It's already pretty much if a puree. So often just what do I feed my child, whatever you had for dinner, throw it through the baby food grinder and give it to the baby. The child either age three or four, this works really well, I'm told. So that's another way to get them onto the healthy food train there.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(31:06)
Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. Dr. Miller?
Dr. Chris Miller
(31:08)
Well, I don't have kids either, but I do try to surround myself by kids, my nieces and nephews and [inaudible 00:31:14] and I just love them. And so I always want to try to encourage people being healthy. So like Julieanna, my heart goes out to you with your own concerns. Because it is so hard and we do nutrition ourselves, they have issues within our own family and I've had my own share of things. So I totally felt you when you were talking. So I know your kids are probably have learned and are beautiful now. But anyway, well, a couple of tips that I like to share is one, I'm a fan of educating. Kids are smart even at five years old, they start to learn and understand, and they want to play a role and they… Again, if you make it fun, like everyone else has suggested a reason that they care about, they're to want to choose that they really as they see you doing and even if one person is still eating something, but now they understand that Papa ate spinach for his muscles. Kids are smart and I've seen him just kind of make the right choice, not always, but they kind of start to get in.
Dr. Chris Miller
(32:12)
So when you're encouraging it and you're doing it and you make it easy for them, they will make that choice then oftentimes, and giving a chance and keep reinforcing it, and asking your co-partner to make it a little easier, at least try to help the kid it be encouraging even if they're going to be their thing.
Dr. Chris Miller
(32:32)
So just maybe trying not to sabotage them, maybe you can put their food higher up or in a different cupboard or kind of away from the kids. So that just try to make it a little bit easier. So the education is one. Knowing that kids are smarter and then trying to get everyone at least a little bit involved to make it easier for the kid is number two. And number three is what Julieanna said and I couldn't agree more. And it's the positive environment about food to not make it negative, to not make it shame and blame, but to make it just, this is healthy food.
Dr. Chris Miller
(33:02)
And this is what people eat all around the world, and this is what we're going to eat and nourish our bodies so that we grow into healthy, strong beings as well. And here are choices for tonight's dinner and just make it kind of not, there's bad food and good food, or you're bad if you don't eat this or you don't get dessert if you don't eat this, or shame or blame or none of that. Just keep it a positive environment as best that you can what's in your control. So, those are my little tips to share.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(33:27)
Yeah. And I honestly I was fortunate, my husband was very on board from day one with the crazy idea of going over night. So I was lucky. The kids knew better than to harass me because I've always told them, “What you have is what you get.” Funny you'll be hungry the next meal. I mean, I went to medical school with three little kids, so I didn't have a whole lot of time to cook. And so it actually benefited us because they were never picky because they ate what they got. It was like, “Oh, we'll eat it because we're hungry.” But one thing that just might be helpful is just always open those lines of communication with your partner, because it's so very important. You're constantly sharing, maybe there's something that you feel better like your cholesterol though, like Julieanna was saying her labs are better.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(34:09)
Or maybe that joint paint that you were suffering is gone or your GI system's better. Or maybe your child's eczema is cleared up or maybe their asthma is better. You know what parent doesn't want their child to be healthier. So I just would say, these are the reasons we want to introduce healthier foods. So they don't develop the chronic diseases, maybe your partner is suffering from, or what you're suffering from. So those are just some other things and just have them project into the future, that the decisions that we're teaching our kids now have consequences.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(34:37)
So it's hard because each person has to face their own food, addictions and different thoughts and beliefs. And, but it's gentle reminders of why you're doing it and that may help and then make it just super easy to do. So if you can help them, see how easy it is to transition to healthier a diet.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(34:56)
And they don't have to necessarily be fully on board, but say, can you just bring that into the house, or maybe you eat it when you go out or when you go out with your friends on that lunch at work. Just try to make some compromises and that will make it a little bit easier. So there's so much great talking about here.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(35:12)
Here's another one. What is your experience when your kids go to a friend's house, or birthday party where it's pepperoni pizza and ice cream? My take is you choose your battles and continue to educate. Yes. So one of the things that I feel like we did very well with their three teenagers is in the house this is what you got, but when you go out, you do what you want. And over time what happened, I'd say over a year or so, I really started noticing my two youngest, especially my daughter went off to college and she did what she did and she's come back around, but the two boys over the course of a year or so, when we would go out, they would order tofu instead of the chicken.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(35:47)
We were never big on the soda, so that wasn't a big issue, but that was it. And then there was an incident with Gabriel, my little one, Lee wasn't so little he's a teenager who did go somewhere and became very ill, actually ended up in the hospital with severe abdominal pain, elevated [inaudible 00:36:04] count because he chose to eat the pepperoni pizza, double cheeseburger and some ice cream, which he didn't at home. And, let's just say it was quite an experience. And he learned very quickly and now even, I think it'd been a month ago, he said he had ordered a plant-based shake at a restaurant and at a school where he's in college and he goes, “Mom, I knew immediately there was [inaudible 00:36:26] it. Because I started cramping.” He was like, “I can't take this.”
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(36:29)
So those things remind them. So they'll also not feel good afterwards. They'll feel tired, their tummy not feel well. They'll start putting those two things two and two together. So, hope that's helpful, but any other situations or ideas, thoughts there for everyone?
Dr. Chris Miller
(36:46)
I was asked that exact question today. So it's tough for me because again, I don't have kids, so it's really hard for me to give an answer. But for people that if we're trying to reverse a chronic illness in a kiddo, and then that one meal or that one treat as we call it, we call it treatment. It makes me so sad that for us to treat our kids, our families at a birthday party, we give our loved ones, foods that are causing the inflammation and the diseases in them in the first place. And so many of the parents are facing diseases that the kids now have the genes for, right? So even the kids don't yet have it. And so I'm always like, well, try to have your smoothie in the morning, do your best.
Dr. Chris Miller
(37:25)
Maybe you can bring healthy treats. You can make… there's so many healthy ideas now like over forks overnight or healthy human revolution or some a Julieanna's cookbooks or there's so many ideas that people can make a healthy treat and share it with others. And because that sugar, that information, that processed food, that dairy products, all those animal products, I mean, that's a big hit on someone whose immune system or someone who's trying to reverse a chronic illness or even little kiddo, who's trying to be healthier trying to make good choices.
Dr. Chris Miller
(37:54)
So, and then it also resets tastes buds sometimes, it can be hard or if someone has sugar addictions or food addictions, and then we're working so hard to develop the taste buds and get used to like simple food from nature as the world intended it. And now all of a sudden reading back to the process a little bit, so it can be challenging. So, I don't really have an answer though. I just always encouraged to do the best and to support, to give healthy options so that hopefully will minimize those opportunities and that as kids get older, that they'll choose that last because it's possible they'll feel bad like Dr. Marbas was saying, and they'll have repercussions from those choices. So to minimize that by not letting that happen as much, but-
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(38:37)
Yes.
Dr. Chris Miller
(38:38)
And I was curious what everybody was going to say with that as well. Because I didn't know what else to answer that.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(38:46)
Yeah. I agree.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(38:48)
For those parents who both happen to be ethical vegans and are raising their child with that mindset, there's going to come that day, most likely when the child is going to come back and there is chicken at the party and I eat some. Then, well, now that moment has come. So now what do you do with that? And, as your world shattered, there's a great learning opportunity here. Sit the child down and yeah, so what'd you think and what do you feel? What is it, how did it taste? What do you think about it now? Did you consider the animal or [inaudible 00:39:32] just say yes. See what the child has to tell you? And, it's an opportunity for open a dialogue and a very, very important topic rather than you betrayed me, or how could you do that or make the child feel like they did something wrong, but do that as everyone's been saying here, when they're out, they're going to do what they're going to do. [inaudible 00:39:52] the individual people and childhood is about individuation.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(39:58)
It's about becoming your own person. And there comes at home and you got to decide what it is you're putting in your mouth. And so be an ally to your child during this very, very formative time, this is a delicate moment, but could be handled fairly well.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(40:11)
I think that's a great point because it's not only you're increasing the communication with your child, but you're giving them critical thinking skills. So you're looking at what the child's deciding, and there will be consequences. So, like you said, talk about the animal or you're thinking about, well now how do you feel? Do you feel more tired? Is your tummy upset? So they just really understand that what I do now may have future consequences. And I think that's something that a lot of us are missing and opportunities to teach our kiddos, that those… it's just like teaching your children financial readiness, you just got to teach them nutritional readiness as well, because when they do go off to college, it's a whole nother ball game. So any other thoughts on that one?
Julieanna Hever
(40:48)
I love that. I love what you just said nutrition readiness.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(40:51)
Yes.
Julieanna Hever
(40:54)
It's so interesting. It is… So all of it, there's so much to say. I just had an idea, now I lost it.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(40:59)
I mean you're-
Dr. Michael Klaper
(40:59)
I'm so glad that it happens to other people especially younger ones. That's wonderful. I'm so glad Julieanna. Thank you. Let's give [inaudible 00:41:10] today.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(41:13)
Oh, goodness.
Julieanna Hever
(41:14)
There's so many things to think about. I mean, I did things for my kids. I brought them to farm sanctuaries and I brought them to… I didn't show them any of the footage because I'm an ethical vegan too. That's how it started for me separately. But, I try to introduce them to those concepts in a very beautiful way, not the horrible imagery that is very graphic. I didn't show them any of that. Again, I try to be very positive and inspiring and they saw me do videos on farms, loving animals and doing cooking videos. I did a cooking video with my daughter for kids cook Mondays and we did a little bit of a… in fact, it was 10 years ago, because last month I was going to post it again.
Julieanna Hever
(41:55)
Because she went from this tiny little adorable thing to [inaudible 00:41:58]. My mistake and what I tell my clients that are parents now was that I really was on a mission. This was really important to me. This was a priority to me to have my kids eat healthy. Like I thought, well, I know what I'm doing and I'm just going to make it happen. No, it didn't work like that. And so I was like a real… I would have arguments with other, like at sporting things, like when my son would have a game or a practice and they would hand them the junk food, I was the mom that would take the junk food away. Or I was the mum that said, “No we don't need that. Or we're going to go have something else. Or I have these,” I tried every strategy to be honest.
Julieanna Hever
(42:34)
I didn't have a partner on board. So it was like, then the dad gives him his stuff. And I was like, “So then what was the point of what mommy said?” Right. So there's that. If you're on the same page, it's much easier in social environments because you can prepare, you can have colleagues and friends and engagements, family engagements, where you always have the food that's available. That's just how we eat. This is how our family eats, or you could eat ahead of time. You could… just planning and knowing, but everyone being on the same page is the best thing, but again for you, well dimension, this is where all have to decide for ourselves. And the only thing you can fully control is what you do and what your role model. So that's where I'm at right now, personally. And with what I tell people is that you could only make those choices for yourself.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(43:17)
I have to say that that is absolutely true. So for example, we lived in a small town in Western Colorado called Rifle. All right, you'll figure it out Rifle. There's going to be a lot of ranchers hunters, that type of thing. So first of all, you learn real quick, who's the vegan kids, right. So my youngest gave actually took it on and loved it. He loved being the only vegan kid. He made a documentary for one of his classes, all about like a kale burrito I made. It was really funny. Gabe played baseballs on the the varsity team, since it's freshman year, this kid could catch an entire 7-inning game. High school games are 7-innings. And then if there was a double header, because you have little small towns, you don't travel back and what you do double header in one evening.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(44:00)
And then he would pitch and he was never sore. The other kids are falling apart because like, “How does your kid do that?” I was like, “Well, look what he's eating.” So what do you think happens between with the recovery and all those different things. He'd run cross country and do these things and he's not hurting. We're totally doing the beet powders, the beet juice. We're doing all the research and say, “Hey, Gabe let's really Jack up your athletic performance by doing whatever we can.” And the kids really respond to that. Because they just want to be the best they can be. They want to feel good. They want to stand out in a positive direction. And so I think that was really cool. And you know, there was a period of time where we had quite a few of the baseball parents trying plant-based diet and some of the kids.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(44:39)
So these are some things just sharing your positive experience will also help with that and then when it's our turn to bring this next, what do you think I'm bringing? I'm bringing some really yummy food, not just your orange slices. I'm like, “We're bringing some good stuff,” because I want them curious about it. So use those as opportunities to share what you're doing. So, yeah, I love that. So we should probably go to the next question. My daughter has a coughing and asthma usually brought on by seasonal allergies. I've heard diversity and microbiotic can play a big role in allergies, any true to this. What can I do to help her? Any of you?
Julieanna Hever
(45:17)
I can jump into a little bit about that. So, great. You're right on track with diversity of microbiome and building a healthy immune system. And there is actually good data now that, in countries where people eat less than five servings of fruit and vegetables a day, they had significantly more asthma and allergies and in countries where they ate over seven or eight servings, it significantly went down. So number one is just increasing the amount of fruits and vegetables. And again, I think that should be raw, as much as possible again with kids, maybe you can't, maybe that's not achievable and then that's okay you just do the best that you can. But if you can push towards seven, eight servings of raw, fresh fruits and vegetables for like Dr. Klaper had said earlier, the microbiome that's actually on that produce the living foods in it, the vitamin C again, that I keep going back to, but it's destroyed when we cook it.
Julieanna Hever
(46:05)
And so doing our best to get the fresh produce. And then diversity. So if they'll eat the beans for you, if they'll eat the whole grains for you, mixing it up and getting a different array for the microbiome for them is going to be really important. Certain fruits and vegetables have more what's called corsitone, which is a phytonutrient that is known to the anti-histamines. So high corsitone in foods include the skins of apples. So if you can get organic apples and eat the skins, that's wonderful.
Julieanna Hever
(46:35)
Onions are high in corsitone. and then just colorful fruits and vegetables. Again, I go back to with that as well. So, eating foods like that will be very helpful. With allergies, it's tricky because then you also want to look for triggers. So if there's trying to vacuum and dust a little more and that's hard for me, because I always forget to do that as well, but getting rid of dust mites and keeping the house clean and trying to figure out if there's any exposures in the house, but number one really is getting the immune system healthier.
Julieanna Hever
(47:08)
So prebiotic fiber resistant, starch, eating fresh fruits and vegetables, the legumes, the whole grains, things like that are really, really key. Sometimes I will use a probiotic in certain people. There's more evidence now that probiotics are not always helpful. So I'm picking and choosing only certain probiotics now and in certain patients for certain reasons, but then I do find that can be helpful as well, especially if the person has been on antibiotics or maybe wasn't breastfed as much, or has different past medical history or something going on, then I may want to use that to help the microbiome as well, but in general, it's really ramping it up.
Julieanna Hever
(47:44)
And, I think it sounds like you're on track. Whoever asked that question because you're asking the right questions. Oh, one last thing that we haven't really touched on, but it's getting omega-3 fatty acids into the diet. So, things like flax seeds, chia seeds, walnuts, those leafy green vegetables, that's all going to be really important and sometimes a little extra algae oil, getting a little extra EPA and DHA for the anti-inflammatory factors of that will be helpful for immune systems that are kind of over reactive to allergies. So those were some of my tips.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(48:17)
Excellent.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(48:19)
Excellent points. Well at the end of the day is that often the food sphere and the seasonal allergies often overlap in that. I've had patients who've adopted a really clean plant-based diet and they noticed that a lot of their seasonal allergies went away. And what I suspect is that people, especially who aren't completely plant-based to who are still eating dairy products, et cetera. They've got a low grade dairy allergy, low grade wheat allergy. Sometimes they're reacting to something in their diet and as the reactive molecules, the casein or the gluten or whatever, it might be that really flows through their nasal membranes.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(49:02)
Oh, that sets off a low grit. It starts inching things down on the allergic response. And the catheter gets a leaky and the histamine builds up and the mass cells get a little plump, and the membranes get primed when their little old pollen grain lands on these already primed membranes. Whoa, out comes the mucus and the sneezing and the congested eyes, et cetera.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(49:29)
But the stage was set from what the person was eating. It wasn't all that battle pollen, it was a problem, a lot has to do with what we did to our membranes to set up their kind of reaction. So, certainly if there's anyone who was in here who has seasonal allergies, and you are a dairy eater, try to experiment for a few months. Mix on the milk and cheese and ice cream and yogurt and meet the labels on the bread, et cetera. There's often dairy with casein and whey in lots of baked goods, et cetera. And if you find yourself, your hay fever is not so bad this year, it may well be because your gut is healthier and your membranes aren't so primed to have these reactions there. So the pollen might be, your body giving you a message on the underlying reactivity of your diet there. So lean and clean is the way to go here. Everything benefits.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(50:28)
Absolutely. Definitely. There is another good question. I think here because smoothies… we've kind of started off with smoothies. That was a really cool way for us to get this, but what are your thoughts on green smoothies? What about chia and flax seed, Julieanna?
Julieanna Hever
(50:46)
This has come up so much. I have the video on it. You can Google my To Smoothie or Not To Smoothie. It's called To Smoothie or Not To Smoothie. That is the question. I also love Shakespeare. So anyway, I started with green smoothies. I was one of those first green smoothie videos that way back when those little YouTube things were starting, that was my very first video, was a green smoothie. And I did a lot of green smoothie videos and on TV. I've done a lot of green smoothies on TV, and I love them because, oh my gosh, it's the most nutritional bang for your caloric buck. You get this delicious, nutritious beverage of choice with everything, you get every color of the rainbow in there with your seeds, whatever, you can put everything and get anything into a smoothie. And I love that because I think it's a great gateway food because not everyone wants to eat. I can imagine, but not everyone wants to eat tons of leafy greens every day, raw and cooked and salads and all that.
Julieanna Hever
(51:38)
I mean, I don't know. I think these people exist, but if you don't, that is a good gateway to start getting them in because a lot of people start with the really super sweet palette and a smoothie as a way to make green super sweet. And you don't even kind of taste them going down. You can use frozen vegetables, frozen greens, frozen broccoli, and you may not even notice they're there. I don't know why you'd want to miss the deliciousness of those greens of my favorite thing, but they can fit into a healthy diet. That said a lot of people come to me to lose weight. A lot of people come to me to improve a lot of different things and you lose the benefit of having to digest those foods when you puree it, because it's all done in the blender.
Julieanna Hever
(52:19)
So is that a bad thing? Is that a good thing? It just depends. Like, are you okay on your weight and that's not an issue. Do you need more calories in? We've talked about gaining weight several times. I have a video on that too, about Gaining Weight Healthily. The question is what's the goal, are you one that will just do what I do and can't get an upgrades in my diet, that I want to chew them all day like, it's my favorite food, then that's great then you don't need to do a smoothie. But then there's all these people that have digestive issues or absorption issues. And then this is the great solution because you can get more in, it's already pre-digested for you. So it'll go through your GI tract. And, there's a lot here. It's a real loaded question in terms of what the right answer is. And I think it depends on the situation and they could definitely fit into a health promoting diet.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(53:05)
Yeah, absolutely. And so we certainly have used them and drink them slowly. You don't want to gulp them down because your body it'd be like taking the entire salad and stuffing it in your tummy all at once, but slowly over a half hour to an hour is small drinks. One last question. I know Dr. K you got to go to another meeting, but Philip asks, both me and my partner now have very high blood pressure. Never had it until we went vegan January 1st, 2020. Can you advise the best way to reduce blood pressure? We've tried plant sterols, but this doctor wants us both on meds. I'm just going to say there are many things that I worry about when people say vegan, versus a whole food plant-based diet, reading processed foods, ton of sodium and some other things.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(53:46)
So just because it says vegan and comes out of the store does not make it healthy and honestly Philip, I think you would do well to see one of us on Plant Based TeleHealth because we could definitely help with that. And there's lots of things to deal with blood pressure so that [inaudible 00:54:04] my suggestion plantbasedtelehealth.com, but any other suggestions on certainly there are foods that we could be eating, and some other stuff, anybody, blood pressure?
Dr. Michael Klaper
(54:14)
Processed foods are usually playing the culprit role there. There are so many things in the oils, there's sugars, there's sodium, the gluten, it's notorious, if you really… your best friend, again, Dr. Marbas, says dark leafy greens and Julieanna dark leafy greens because they're full of potassium and magnesium and they open up blood vessels and helps lower blood pressure.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(54:41)
So I have a big salad every day and just load for a few weeks, go really heavy on the green, yellow vegetable, soups, and salads and steamed veggies. And then you might even consider a three day water fast or five day water fast once a month, also helps to lower it down. So there are ways to do that again, like Dr. Marbas said, arrange a consultation with one of us, you're currently still healthier, we can coach you on how to help get this down naturally.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:09)
Absolutely. So any final thoughts before we sign off for the day?
Dr. Chris Miller
(55:15)
Mine would just say good luck to all the kids starting school and all the parents. I know there's a lot of fear out there and this is a tough time and it's a tough to see that all my friends and my brothers are going through this right now as well. So, good luck to you all. And just do the best you can to get a healthy immune system and positive vibes and sunshine and rest and take care of yourselves and nourishing lifestyle. It all matters. And you'll do well. So good luck everyone.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(55:46)
[inaudible 00:55:46].
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:46)
Absolutely. And just, don't forget to take care of yourself because you're taking care of everybody else. So take care of yourselves too. So that's really important, but-
Dr. Michael Klaper
(55:55)
Yeah. Absolutely.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:56)
All right guys.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(55:58)
Eat more veggies.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(55:59)
Eat more veggies. It's the food as Dr. Klaper says.
Dr. Michael Klaper
(56:01)
It's the food. It's the food.
Dr. Chris Miller
(56:02)
It's the food. I was telling my patient about you this morning. It's the food. There it is. Yay. It's the best [crosstalk 00:56:11].
Dr. Michael Klaper
(56:11)
Bye everybody. Good night sleep.
Dr. Laurie Marbas
(56:14)
Bye everyone. Have a great week. Bye.
*Recorded on 8.27.20